Hurricanes, Epidurals, And Holding On with Erin Hall

A hurricane on the horizon, contractions five minutes apart, and a quick detour through a Chick-fil-A drive-thru—Erin’s first birth story doesn’t read like any class manual. What followed was a long labor, Pitocin without pain relief when an epidural failed, and a body contorting into whatever position brought a sliver of relief. When the anesthesiologist finally got it right and her waters were broken, everything shifted—one push and Kylie arrived. Together we unpack why that experience felt traumatic, how back labor can hint at a sunny-side-up baby, and why instinctive movement often becomes the most powerful tool you have.

The second time was a different world. Early March 2020, open triage bays, “flu” precautions that turned out to be COVID, and a race to get an epidural before the cutoff. Her water broke at home, the pressure told the real story, and a few pushes later, Kason was here. We compare what changed—baby position, timing, hospital flow, mindset—and explore the myth that a smooth birth equals success while a hard birth equals failure. Birth plans help, but listening to your body, asking for options, and protecting your headspace matter more.

We also go deep on postpartum truths: breastfeeding pressure versus low supply, family history that reframes expectations, and the permission to choose formula or donor milk without shame. Erin talks candidly about body image, the relief of having her partner home during lockdown, and how building Bump and Beyond became a lifeline for parents who need more than advice—they need a village. If you’ve ever felt out of control, second-guessed every choice, or wondered whether you did enough, this conversation offers clarity, compassion, and practical insight.

If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs reassurance, and leave a review telling us one belief about birth or postpartum you’re ready to let go. Your story can help someone else find theirs.

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Chapters

• 0:56 Meet Erin And Bump And Beyond
• 1:52 Pregnancy Stress And Body Image
• 3:45 Birth Plan Meets Hospital Reality
• 4:55 Labor Begins As A Hurricane Nears
• 6:52 Triage Delays And No Progress
• 9:40 Pitocin, Failed Epidural, And Panic
• 12:56 The Second Epidural And Relief
• 14:52 Water Breaks, One Push, Baby Kylie
• 17:11 Processing Trauma And Control
• 20:39 Positioning, Back Labor, And Insight
• 25:39 Kaysen’s Birth During Early COVID
• 28:44 Racing The Clock For An Epidural
• 33:38 Fast Delivery And Labor Land
• 36:13 Comparing Births Without Shame
• 39:09 Postpartum Truths And Breastfeeding Strain
• 43:38 Formula, Expectations, And Letting Go
• 47:05 Do What Works For Your Family
• 52:16 Find Your Village And Heal

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:28

Hello, today I have with me Erin Hall, a mom of two and part of the heart behind Bump and Beyond, a vibrant online community that connects families with resources, education, and a whole lot of encouragement from pregnancy through parenthood. Through Bump and Beyond, Erin helps families feel less alone and more empowered by creating spaces where they can learn, ask questions, and discover support they didn't even know existed. She's passionate about building community, sparking a love of reading in kids, and finding creative ways to make parenting feel a little more fun and a lot less overwhelming. Erin is also a paper pie vendor, sharing high-quality children's books and educational resources that inspire curiosity, creativity, and a lifelong love of learning. Whether she's hosting family-friendly events, stalking little free libraries, or cheering on her kids from the sidelines, she radiates the kind of encouragement every parent needs. Today, Erin is here to share her own birth stories, giving us a real and heartfelt glimpse into her journey into motherhood. Erin, welcome and thank you for joining me. Hey Kelly, thanks for having me on. I am so excited to finally hear your birth stories. It's been a long time coming. We've had little snippets of what happened, but I want to hear it all.

SPEAKER_00: 1:47

Yeah. Well, gosh, I don't know. Where do you want me to start?

SPEAKER_01: 1:51

I feel like the beginning would be good.

SPEAKER_00: 1:53

The beginning. So I would assume we'd start with Kylie. Okay, so once upon a time, Brandon and I met and we got married. And then it was two or three days later, Kylie was conceived. Oh dear. Um, so honeymoon ended very fast. And we got married December, and I found out I was pregnant on my birthday, which is February 1st. So yeah, God has a way to make things slap you in the face real fast. And so in that process of pregnancy, it was very overwhelming. Brandon was leaving his job at the university, and I was working in the restaurant. We had to sell our house, we had to buy a house, and it was just it was a lot. So being pregnant was never fun for me. I always felt very large, and I still struggle with body image issues because getting pregnant so fast after my wedding. With my wedding, I was in amazing shape. And getting pregnant so fast, like my your body just doesn't go back how you think it should. And so that took probably until about I was pregnant with Kaysen, which was like three years later, where I was feeling okay, and then I got pregnant. So again, they just throw things at you, right? So fun. But for the birthing story itself with Kylie, we knew we wanted to do a hospital birth. And so we did the classes they offered. We thought we learned a whole lot, and uh turns out we learned pretty much nothing about what was actually going to happen. They did talk about having your birth plan, like the classes were actually really good. It was like eight weeks of classes, one night a week. It was a lot of information. So they went over things as a brand new mom. It would make you feel comfortable bringing a human into the world. They talked about having a birthing plan and having a plan B, C, and D, because things happen. And I just was like, no, I'm healthy, things are gonna be great. I want to go all natural. I was really into nutrition at that point. Uh, I still am, but I was really into nutrition at that point, and I was just like, I don't want any medicine in me unless it has to happen. And so that's kind of how we went. And here's a fun story for you that my Kylie always likes me to tell. So Kylie's due date was October 4th, and I had my checkup with the doctor, and she's like, You're three centimeters dialing, but ain't nothing happening. Like you're she's just hanging out, no contractions, nothing's going on. And so we went home, and that appointment was like 10 in the morning. So at night I was super uncomfortable, and I was like, I think something's going on, but you don't know, like until you're in the process of it, you have no idea what's happening. And so I was really uncomfortable. It was uncomfortable to lay down. So I decided to just sleep downstairs. And about three in the morning, I begged Brandon to come sleep with me because I was so uncomfortable downstairs, even in the chair, I couldn't sleep. And so this now we're in October 5th. But my I didn't know it at the time, but my contractions had started the day before. And fun fact, if you did not know, when hurricanes come through, it sends women into labor. I guess the air pressure when it changes, it's just like, okay, mom, it's time. And so there was a hurricane coming through in North Carolina. So the body was like, okay, we're getting this started. Well, Kylie didn't want to leave. And so she's just hanging out and the contractions are speeding up because we moved, we were almost an hour away from the hospital, which is funny to say because we live in a metropolitan area. But the hospital, my the birthing hospital I was gonna be at was gonna be, it's like it was like 55 minutes away. And so they were like, when your contractions hit seven minutes apart because we live so far away, but at five minutes apart, because I was like, I'm not gonna be sent home. That's not gonna happen. Then we decided to go. And that morning I was working, I was on my um big giant yoga ball, just bouncing while I was doing puzzles. So Brandon knows like babies are coming when I get like full-on puzzle mode, and I'm just knocking out like thousand-piece puzzles within a couple hours. So Brandon's always like, oh no, she's working on puzzles. What's happening? So, anyways, my contractions were five minutes apart, and then we decide to leave and go up to the hospital. Onto the way to the hospital, I'm having contractions. There's pressure, there's pain. And Brandon goes, Hey, we're probably gonna be in the hospital for a while, and you know, I'm not gonna be able to go get food. Can we stop by Chick-fil-A real quick? So we ran through the drive-thru of Chick-fil-A when I was having my contractions. I was in active labor. And so then we got to the hospital. They had it was a new birthing center. It was beautiful, and they put us into a triage room, which they only had three of. And we ended up being in triage for like six hours because so many women were coming in that needed to be seen before me. And I was still only three centimeters dilated, even having contractions. Like there was no nothing was doing. So they had me walk the hospital walls and I'm bouncing on yoga balls, and they're trying to do all the things, and nothing happened. So then finally, after the six hours, they moved me to a birthing suite. So this is still October 5th, but I'd been in labor at this point for 20 hours. And so I'm in the birthing suite. I don't, they're like, Do you want an epidural? I was like, No, I want to go all natural. Like, this is what God created, He created our bodies to be able to do this. And I was like, I can do this, I'm strong-willed. So we're in the birthing suite, and nothing is happening. And at that point with that hospital, they only had one doctor on duty. And so, because so many women were coming in to give birth, they had to send people away because there weren't any room. So we heard like horror stories later of like a lady got sent away and like she gave birth on the drive home. Just crazy things. And I was like, Well, thank God they let me stay. So we're in the birthing suite, and Brandon and I were, you know, we're doing our funny waddle dances and we're just doing everything we can to try to get Kylie to want to come. But the doctor would not break my water. I don't know why we didn't ask at the time, but that's definitely something in hindsight. I would be like, Why didn't you break my water at that point? Especially with my second child case and his water broke. And I was like, oh yeah, that pushed things along very quickly. So my water never broke with Kylie. But because I was getting so exhausted because I'd been in active labor for so long, it was probably like one or two in the morning of the 6th of October. And they finally came in and I was, I was done. I was exhausted. But at this point, I'm like, you know, my contractions are like three minutes apart, two minutes apart. So like things are moving, but Kylie's not going anywhere. I'm not dilated anymore to make anything special happen. And so they were like, Well, why don't we give you an epidural so at least your body can get a break? And then we'll give you pitocin to help speed along that labor. And I was like, Yeah, that's great. I'm done. Like, I'm done running this marathon up over it. And so they gave me the epidural and they gave me the pitocin. The pitocin worked very well. The epidural did not take. So I was feeling all the pain. And I didn't know better because I was like, because epidural was not a part of what my plan was, I they were like, oh, you should feel a tingling down your left side. And I thought I did, but apparently I didn't. And so with epidural not taking and the potosin did take, I felt like I was in the movie The Exorcist. Like my body's like bending in positions it should not physically be able to bend, especially when you're, you know, nine months pregnant. And Brandon, he would leave the room to be like, I'm gonna get you more ice chicks. And he would leave the room so he could like try to compose himself because he's like, I don't know what to do because they can't give me anything else. And then eventually the nurse walks in and I'm sitting up just like I am now, and she's like, What are you doing? I was like, I don't know that this is this is the only way I can be comfortable. Like, I don't know what's going on. And she's like, No, no, no, you physically should not be able to be sitting up right now. And I was like, Okay, like I didn't know because from the epidural, like you're paralyzed from the waist down. So she's like, You physically shouldn't be able to be sitting up like I was. And that's when we realized the epidural did not take. So they put in a call for the anesthesiologist to get another epidural in. And thankfully the shift had changed. So that was gonna be a new gentleman, but there was a wait because there are so many women giving birth. So I had to wait like two hours longer to get the epidural. And at this point, I think I was I think I was only five centimeters dilated at this point. But it's, I mean, we're going on like 30 hours, 32 hours of labor. And the Pitocin kicked in, so I had that on top of it. So lots of things happening. And so my contractions are 30 seconds apart when the anesthesiologist gets back in, and they're like, he's the best one in the state, he's amazing, he's really pretty to look at. And I was like, that's what I needed at that point. It did help, by the way. But uh, thank God for that guy because he came in because he has to do it between my contractions, and he stuck that dang, you know, ridiculously long needle in my back, one hit wonder, and he's like, You should feel a tingle down your left side. And then I felt I was like, I think I feel something. And then all of a sudden I was like, that's what it was supposed to feel like the first time. So then I knew the epidural had taken, and then I slept for five hours, like it passed out, like within seconds of that epidural taking. Like they just laid me down and I was out to the world. And within those five hours, the shift had changed for the doctors. So there was a new doctor there. And so when I woke up, the nurse went and got the doctor, and she was like, Oh, we came in and checked on you. I heard you had like the most horrendous night of your life. I was like, Yeah, I did. And she's like, You've progressed really well. And going back now and looking at it, that what I needed was to find a way for my body to calm. And so I love what you're doing with moms. And I really, for anybody watching this, Kelly was my babysitter growing up, but she was not doing this birth coaching when I was pregnant. If she was, I would have paid even my husband, he's like, we would have paid thousands of dollars to have Kelly come and walk us through that whole process. Because if we had Kelly there, she'd be like, if you're in this much pain, the epidural probably didn't work. Like we would have seen that right away. Why the nurses didn't notice that, I don't know. Until that point, I was so, like I said, I was living like exorcist life.

SPEAKER_01: 13:52

Do you want to pause and talk through any of this? Because you've said a lot of things that were so I promised backstory. I promised that we would do some postpartum coaching in this episode. Because, like Aaron said, I wasn't there for any of the births. And for the past year that we've been working together since we reconnected after I babysat her when she was little. We've been talking about like, oh, would have been nice for me to be able to help you through this. So I've heard a couple of things that stand out as like question marks for you. I heard you say that your doctor didn't break your water.

unknown: 14:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 14:30

I heard you say that you was the pitocin started before or after your epidural?

SPEAKER_00: 14:36

It was the same time.

SPEAKER_01: 14:37

I see. So like they started it while they were putting in the epidural.

SPEAKER_00: 14:42

Yeah, they put it because I was linked up to an IV at that point because I was already dehydrated. And so they I don't know if he did the epidural first and then they entered in the pitocin, but it was within the same session of them being in the room.

SPEAKER_01: 14:57

Okay. As far as breaking your water, you said you were, were you three centimeters when you got to the hospital still?

SPEAKER_00: 15:05

I was three when I got to the hospital. When they were giving me the epidural, I think I was at about five.

SPEAKER_01: 15:10

Okay. So ordinarily, when we break someone's water, we have to make sure that the baby, the head needs to be down enough in the pelvis that when they break the water, they are relatively sure that the cord won't come down before the baby's head because that would be an emergency. So probably at three centimeters, when you're in natural labor, they may not have wanted to do that because I would assume that the baby's head wasn't far enough down.

SPEAKER_00: 15:40

Sure. Yeah, that makes sense to me.

SPEAKER_01: 15:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 15:43

It was just to the point where they I don't know if they knew what to do with me until they realized that the epidural didn't take.

SPEAKER_01: 15:53

Right, but like before the epidural, because that had they broken the water, let's pretend in a in this other alternate reality the baby's head was far enough down in your three centimeters. Um, had they broken the water, it would have gotten really, real, really fast. And as a first-time mom, that could put you set you out of control in pain, right? So I think there were a couple, I mean, there weren't red flags or little orange flags where without enough information, I would say, yeah, probably I wouldn't expect a provider to break your water, knowing that you know, three centimeters and natural labor, and I don't know what station diabetes head is. So those could have been the things that were playing into it. Normally, what we would have you do is like walk the halls, try to get labor going more, all of the things that you said to begin, which it doesn't help your pain at all.

SPEAKER_00: 16:47

So I guess continuing the story of where I was at, so when the new doctor came in, once I had woken up after my five-hour nap, we had dilated more.

SPEAKER_01: 16:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 16:58

And at that point, she was like, Because you've dilated more, we're gonna go ahead and break the water if you're okay with that. And I was like, please get this thing out of me. And the baby, the thing mean the thing, the thinging. It could have been an alien at this point. I didn't care. You needed to go. So when the doctor broke the water, I mean, it was probably within 20 minutes, the nurse came and checked on me, and she's like, Don't push, I have to get the doctor. And then it was like one push and Kylie was out. Wow. And Kasen was totally the opposite. Where Casein, his water broke when we were at home. And so just knowing that, I mean, obviously I'm not a nurse, I did not go to school for that. I mean, I can't say I would change my story because it's mine and it's Kylie's. But when she broke the water, that's when everything happened. Is that's what I like is in my brain with the story. So it's like, why couldn't they just done that sooner? Like you said, I probably wasn't dilated enough. And I don't know what position Kylie was in because I was in so much pain, I wasn't thinking at that point. It was just like make it stop.

SPEAKER_01: 18:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 18:10

But then, you know, Kylie came, she had pooped on herself because she was in the birthing canal for so long. And so they cleaned her, and then Brandon got to hold her, and he she held his his big finger. It was really sweet. And then they're like, Do you want to hold her? And I'm like, I don't know. Cause at like at that point, I'm just like, I'm so out of it. Yeah. Like it was, it was just, it was very stressful, painful. I'm sure there are other people that have much worse stories than me. We didn't have to have a C-section, which is amazing. She didn't have to go to Nick Year, nothing like that happened. So that instance of our story with Kylie was amazing. Throughout the whole thing, we were both healthy. We both came out fine. She's great, she's almost nine, and I survived. That's what I get to say for that. Let's pause for a sec.

SPEAKER_01: 19:03

Okay. Because there's still some unprocessed emotions there. Um so you told what I would consider a pretty traumatic story because what I define as trauma is your brain can't connect with what is happening to your body. Like your brain cannot explain it. And so I hear a lot of, oh my god, what is happening to me? My body is out of control. So I kind of want to I want to hear from you what parts were the hardest parts or the parts where you felt, you know, you described feeling like something from the exorcist. Yes. Right. Are there points in the story that you could go back and pinpoint that you need to work through?

SPEAKER_00: 19:46

It would be the point up to where a nurse was like, How are you physically doing that? Because that's when the realization hit that the epidural did not take. And I guess it's something that could have been avoided. Potentially. I mean, if the epidural took the first time, then I wouldn't have been in that pain. Right. And but it didn't. And obviously, you can't change that. But that, I mean, that is definitely if I have PTSD over something, it's that excruciating pain from the Pitocin. If I went back, would I have let them give me Pitocin, knowing the epidural didn't take? I don't know. If the epidural took, the pitocin doesn't. Like it would have been an irrelevant thing, you know what I mean? Yeah. So I mean, that's definitely the point where it was just I'd been active labor for a long time at that point. And like you're just physically exhausted.

SPEAKER_01: 20:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 20:44

My brain was not functioning.

SPEAKER_01: 20:46

No. I feel like what I'm hearing you say is your brain was trying to, and this is what women do. We gaslight ourselves into thinking that we're fine or we should be fine. So we need to see that. Right. And you and Brandon didn't know that everything was not fine. So how could you have said anything? Like you're in that pressure cooker, you know, like, you know, the frog in the hot water, it just gets hotter and hotter and hotter. And so all you were doing was coping, and the way that you were sitting was the only way that was comfortable. So you were trying to figure out how to cope in that situation. And then come to find out you potentially didn't need to. Is that what you kind of felt?

SPEAKER_00: 22:24

Yeah. I mean, probably obviously the pain caused trauma, but it's probably more of the point where I wasn't in control of any of the situation. Yeah. That's probably where it stems from more.

SPEAKER_01: 22:40

Was it do you feel like it was you didn't feel in control because you thought you had the epidural and you felt like there was nothing else that could be done? Maybe. Okay. And if you don't want to, if you don't want to dive deep right now, you don't have to. Oh, we can.

SPEAKER_00: 22:54

I just there's so much of that time I don't remember, probably because my brain is like, we don't want you to. That's true.

SPEAKER_01: 23:06

That's true. I find that if we can kind of pinpoint the time where we realize we didn't have to be as strong as we were, we can legitimize the feelings of being completely out of control or realize that what you went through was truly an intense, painful experience that most people would feel was traumatic, right? Right. Then we can kind of take a breath and realize okay, what I did was really hard. And I don't want to say we could go back and change it, but if you could go back and understand what was happening a little bit better, we can kind of alleviate some of that. So you were saying that your body was doing things that you normally wouldn't do. Like you were moving in in ways that were not natural for you. And then you finally managed to settle on sitting straight up. So what you were doing, although like with the pitocin, if you're having contractions every 30 seconds, that's really hard, right? But what you were doing was you were probably moving your baby down in your pelvis, honestly, because let me try to piece it together. I don't know if you like have a complete timeline, but did they check your cervix before you got the second epidural?

SPEAKER_00: 24:29

I don't recall them doing it.

SPEAKER_01: 24:31

Okay. So what we do when we're moving around in labor is we try to move with our body so that we alleviate pressure and pain. And while that sounds horrific, and in your situation, I think it probably was, what we're doing is we're working with our baby. So you have a baby that's pushing on the bones of your pelvis and trying to work her way down. And as you have a contraction, your baby's head is moving to one side or the other, or twisting and rotating, or doing all of the above. And as you feel that there's a place of pressure where your baby's pushing, that's probably going to be an obstacle for your baby. So then you move so that you can kind of get out of the way of that obstacle. And as you're doing so, you're pushing your baby down in your body to make it so that your baby can be born. So when you say that you were bending in ways that you normally couldn't, yes, you're probably doing things more exaggerated than what we would be doing in natural labor, right? Because you had the Pitocin going. And that's not to say that Pitocin always does that. It sounds like if you're having contractions every 30 seconds, it might have been a little bit too much Pitocin. They probably could have backed off at that point. But the fact that you found ways to try to figure out how to get comfortable, you were doing all the things that I would have had you do had I been there, right? You were just doing them instinctually. You're listening to your body. So I just want you to know that while you felt like you weren't able to cope, that's exactly what you're doing. And you were helping your baby move down, right? And what your husband was doing, what Brandon was doing, was composing himself so that he could be there for you. So you guys were really doing everything you needed to do with the knowledge that you had. And so I just want you to know how great you did, despite feeling completely out of control. You were completely in the moment, using all of your instincts and doing the absolute right thing. And then when somebody came in and validated your feelings and realized that what had happened was your epidural wasn't working, you'd already done all the work. And then you got to take a nap and your baby was ready to come out. So I don't know if it was the relaxation that helped. I mean, that does help. It helps you, you know, relax your muscles, but I think you probably did a lot of that work moving around and trying to get your baby in the right position. Does that feel any better?

SPEAKER_00: 26:53

Yeah. Because I can cry. I told you not to make me cry.

SPEAKER_01: 26:59

I'm sorry, I told you I guaranteed I would.

SPEAKER_00: 27:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 27:02

So when you said that Brandon held Kylie and you weren't sure if you could, what were you feeling at that point?

SPEAKER_00: 27:09

Oh, I was it's I joke about it, but it was more I wanted to hold her.

SPEAKER_02: 27:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 27:17

So there's probably some jealousy that he got to hold her first because they had a cleaner, and I did not want to hold a pooping baby or a baby covered in poop. I'm glad he got to. And I did get to hold her, and it was beautiful. And then we can go into a whole nother thing about breastfeeding. But it was hard. What was hard about it? Does it sound stupid if I say I don't know now?

SPEAKER_01: 27:50

No.

SPEAKER_00: 27:51

I mean, I think it's the it was the not knowing and not having control of the situation. That's hard to give up. I'm actually really good at adjusting to things, but I think the I don't know if anybody could have prepared for what happened to happen. Right. So I can't say, oh, if I had, you know, learned more about it, or oh, sometimes the epidural doesn't take, then I didn't know that that could be a thing.

SPEAKER_01: 28:24

Do you feel like you did something wrong? I mean, we say you need plant A through Z, but really, how do you plan? Right. Right. I hear you saying a lot about control. Is it the fact that you felt out of control when you felt that you needed to be in control that's the hardest?

SPEAKER_00: 30:54

Probably. Because it didn't follow my plan. It didn't follow what I want to have happen. The plan that you didn't have. Exactly. Well, we had a plan that was gonna go all natural, and everything was gonna be great, and we were gonna bounce on my ball, and we were gonna do our silly pregnancy dance.

SPEAKER_01: 31:11

And so I feel like birth is kind of the first welcome into motherhood and what it's really gonna be like. Yeah. That whole I'm actually not in control.

SPEAKER_00: 31:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 31:25

And I know you deal with that daily, right?

SPEAKER_00: 31:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 31:30

Children are fun, they are, and you roll with the punches there. And do you feel like you're really in control? No, okay. I feel like I have a resemblance of control. You can respond to the situation without feeling you're physically out of control. Yes. And you didn't feel that way during your birth. Correct. Okay. So from my perspective, I feel like you had a lot more control than you think you did because of all the things you did instinctually in order to help your baby come out. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00: 32:06

It definitely makes me feel better. Okay. About everything that did happen. I mean, Kylie's almost nine, and I never would have thought my body was moving in ways to make her shift to where she needed to be. So it definitely makes me feel better about that.

SPEAKER_01: 32:23

I mean, this the fact that you she broke your water and they had to tell you not to push. Right. That tells me that you did a lot of work. I did a lot of something. You did a lot of work. And then you got a well-deserved nap. It was a much needed nap. Yeah. And then after all of that, they cleaned her off and gave her to Brandon. Did were they doing anything with you? Did you at all feel like you physically couldn't hold her?

SPEAKER_00: 32:50

Oh, well, no, they I couldn't hold her right away. They had to stitch me up.

SPEAKER_01: 32:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 32:55

I was very torn. Yeah. So they had to stitch me up. So they didn't want me while they were doing that, they didn't want me to hold her.

SPEAKER_01: 33:04

And then afterwards, once you were like all cleaned up and everything, you had a chance. Yes. Then I got to hold her. So seeing that Kylie is now nine and just kind of thinking back to practices back then. I feel like, and this was kind of the way of it when um my daughter was born. It wasn't standard to do immediate skin to skin with mom while the repair was happening. It wasn't until I feel like it became much more standard like five years ago now. Because my youngest is six. It was probably three or four years after that that it really started becoming standard. Because I worked at other hospitals after my son was born. And they still weren't fully doing like the golden hour skin to skin. So unfortunately, it was probably just the standard of practice back then. Now, if you have a baby, I feel like more hospitals are understanding the benefits of immediate skin to skin for one hour and will help you hold your baby. And then if you state that you don't feel like you can, they'll help you, or they'll find somebody else to do the skin to skin. Like it sounds like they did with Brandon. Also, people don't like necessarily like holding poop in the page.

SPEAKER_00: 34:18

I didn't want poop on me. I think that's when I did it anyway. Right. Yeah. I wasn't gonna be able to shower right away. So it's I understand why I didn't get her right away. If that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01: 34:30

Was it because you stated that you didn't want her or because they were like, let's take a moment?

SPEAKER_00: 34:35

I think it was more let's take a moment, we'd let's get her cleaned off. And Brandon was he was there. Yeah. You know, and then they had to stitch me up in the afterbirth and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01: 34:45

So I've definitely worked in places where there was still that, I don't even know what to call it. Like I'm gonna say patriarchal, but maybe not, but almost like talking down to moms and telling them what they want and what they need. I feel like I've worked in places where that was the standard for a long time. And I don't know if the culture is shifting yet, but I'm trying to help it shift. Right. Like you when you know better, you do better. And I feel like I have consciously tried to remove that type of communication from my standard practice and ask moms what they wanted because I don't know that we really had a handle on what kind of negative emotions linger after we do things like that, where we say, I'm gonna take your baby and I'm going to clean your baby up. Even if that's kind of part of what you wanted, still that you weren't asked, right. Still feels out of control.

SPEAKER_00: 35:43

Yeah, I can see that. I mean, I didn't want to hold a poopy baby. Right. But I guess not having the option, even if I would have said no, no, no, clean her up. But again, I was maybe they did ask me. I don't remember.

SPEAKER_01: 35:57

And then there might have been kind of a disappointment in yourself or not feeling able. Right. Yeah. I feel all of that. That happened when Kayla was born as well, because the doctor told me to reach down and take her, but she was floppy and blue. She just felt like a sack of jello. I was like, I can't hold this baby. Please take her to the team that's over there. And then I had all these emotions about like, why couldn't I hold my baby? And why didn't she ask me if I wanted to reach down and grab her? Because I didn't feel strong enough to do that. And then should I have been strong enough to do that? And all of those questions come up. And it's such an incredibly vulnerable moment when you're first meeting your child that it's so easy to feel like you've done something wrong. And that sticks with you for a long time. And it's not necessarily, I don't want to fault the medical community because we're still trying to figure out how to navigate that, because everybody's gonna have different feelings. But I just want moms out there to know that it's okay to really work through that and forgive yourself for feeling not as strong as you wanted to in that moment and for reacting in the only way that you know how, because you really do need you really do need support in that moment. And if you're handing your baby off to someone because you don't feel capable, or if you don't want poop all over your body, you know, it's it's okay. Right, it's okay to feel vulnerable and outside of your comfort zone. For you specifically, your comfort zone was having poop all over you, and that's completely understandable. That's gross. You already feel completely exposed. There's somebody down there sewing everything up. Yeah, you're you've probably been naked and sweaty and all those things. And to have one more thing on top of you covered in poop, like, come on. Hard pants. I'm good, thank you. That's really hard, yeah. But I understand like the feeling of disappointment. Like, what I don't get to hold my baby, it's that's rough.

SPEAKER_00: 37:57

Yeah, moms, it's not like what they show in movies.

SPEAKER_01: 37:59

It really isn't. There's so much going on in that moment. Okay, so then it sounds like Kaysen was completely different. What was going on there?

SPEAKER_00: 38:06

Kaysen was completely different. So with him, I woke up to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. And then when I was walking back to the bed, I was like, Oh, I just peed myself. And I was like, but I I just went to the bathroom. And I was like, wait, maybe that's my water breaking. So I woke up, Brandon, and I was like, either my water just broke or I just peed on myself after I already went to the bathroom. And so he was like, I'm gonna Google it. But I called the nurse hotline and then they asked, like, is it clear and odorless? And I was like, Well, it's on my carpet, so I can't really tell. And they're like, It probably was your water breaking. Go ahead and come in. And my best friend was my next door neighbor, and so I called Kat and I said, My water just broke, so they're having us going to the hospital. And she tells the story of like, oh, Harry Potter was ringing. That was my ringtone, Harry Potter. So she was like, What is that noise? This is the weirdest dream. And she was like, Aaron's in labor. So she woke up real fast and came over. It was like three in the morning when she came over because she was there to watch Kylie for us. So we drove to the hospital, and I definitely it was so different from Kylie because with the water breaking, I felt all that pressure right away. Where before with Kylie, it was just like the squeezing, like something's going on. I don't know what it is, but once the water broke, I was like, oh, that is like solid pressure happening down there. Things are going down and stuff's going on. So that's probably in comparison of the two, where I'm like, why didn't they break my water earlier? It's because with Kaysen, the water broke on its own and I could tell stuff was happening. Where with Kylie, they broke it, and then it was like, oh boom, baby. There. So that's probably where I feel like that disconnect between the the woulda, coulda, shoulda, looking back. So with Kaysen, we got to the hospital and they put us in triage. It was a different hospital than the one with Kylie. This is the crazy thing. Well, there are two crazy parts of Kaysen's story, but the triage was open, so it was just the sliding curtains between the moms, and it was early March of 2020. So it was March 2nd, the day he was born. At this point, it's four in the morning. They're like, hey, we're just gonna keep you in triage because there's moms coming in with a lot of breathing problems. Side note, there was a hurricane that was coming through in March of that year, also. So it's sending a lot of it was probably a tropical storm. It wasn't a hurricane, but it was sending a lot of women into labor and they were having breathing problems. So we didn't know it at the time because they just thought they had the precautions for the flu up, like you could only have one person in the room. Children were not allowed anywhere upstairs. They had all those things in place for the flu. But turns out it wasn't the flu, it was COVID. So all these women with breathing problems had COVID are just walking by. Oh my gosh. No big deal. But we didn't know. You know, lockdown didn't happen for two more weeks. So looking back, it was like, oh, that could have been a lot worse than what it was. So we were in triage, and because I wasn't at risk for anything, they just let me stay there. I don't remember a lot of that point. I did, I do remember telling them when I came in that I wanted an epidural because I didn't want the pain again. So I'm in triage and they're checking on me occasionally. But I don't, like I said, it was early in the morning. I thought I fell back asleep. Brandon's like, no, you were awake and we were talking the whole time. I don't remember any of it. So it clearly wasn't very compelling conversations with my husband. But then the nurse finally came in and checked, and she was like, Oh, you want an epidural? We gotta go. Because I was to almost to the point dilation where it was like to the point of no return where I would not be able to have the epidural. And so they got the wheelchair and they moved me up to the burling suite, and they came in to do the epidural right away. What I remember about that was the anesthesiologist was training somebody else, and she had to poke my back about six times to get the needle in. And she was like, I need you to do a C curve on your back. And I'm like, I am, and she's like, You're not. And I was like, I am. And so I eventually I was probably pretty rude to the nurse, but I was getting very frustrated. And I just told the nurse, just move me where I need to go, because I thought I was rounding my shoulders and doing the curve, and I'm like, and there's this big baby in my belly, a nice, you know, almost nine-pounder. And I'm like, I can't physically move that way. And so I just told the nurse, like, move me where you need me to move me. And so she did, and then they got the epidural in. It did take right away. They just had to poke me many times for it. And then once the epidural took, I mean, it was, you know, two pushes. I remember the epidural taking, and I remember like laying down and being calm. So I probably were just hanging out watching TV. I don't remember. Like, that is gone from me once the epidural took. And then the nurse told me the doctor's the doctor's gonna come in because it's about time. And they said he's gorgeous and he has these really, really blue eyes, like blue eyes, like this color, like really, really pretty blue. And my husband is like, why? We always have to have the handsome doctors coming. So I do remember when the doctors, you know, you're you're spread wide open and he's down there, and as he's got blue, blue eyes, and I was like, You are really pretty.

SPEAKER_01: 43:54

Did you actually say that to him? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 43:57

He was that pretty. Yeah. And the nurse, the nurse was laughing, but the nurse was like, Don't worry, like talking to Brain, don't worry, husband. He has six kids, he's happily married. And so just a little eye candy to help you out. Yes, absolutely. I mean, who knew you just needed an attractive man to calm me down? Sorry, husband. You're the one that did this to me.

SPEAKER_01: 44:18

Yeah. Okay. So you got your epidural and then like one push.

SPEAKER_00: 44:23

I don't, I don't remember anything after that. I'm sure there was an hour or something between, but it was like once the epidural took, then it was just very, I didn't feel anything. So it was just happening. And then it was like Casein was like two pushes.

SPEAKER_01: 44:37

So you were, I hear you're glossing over the hard part. What's going on there?

SPEAKER_00: 44:41

I don't know. I don't was there a hard part for that one? With case in the hard part was her stabbing my back with the epidural. But that's what I remember.

SPEAKER_01: 44:51

Right. Okay. So all I can think is that probably casein was moving down in your pelvis sooner, which caused your water to break naturally. Right. Which caused you to have those real labor-y contractions, like where they're really doing the thing and you're feeling the pressure. But I also hear you saying that you didn't feel like you're in, I don't want to say you weren't in as much pain, but it wasn't as like out of control.

SPEAKER_00: 45:21

It was definitely not as out of control as Kylie's.

SPEAKER_01: 45:25

Can you like are you able to kind of go into your body and compare the two?

SPEAKER_00: 45:31

I mean, in comparison, Kylie's was much more traumatic than Kaysen's.

SPEAKER_01: 45:36

But you were no you were noticing the contractions felt different. You felt immediately that pressure and that moving down in the pelvis.

SPEAKER_00: 45:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 45:44

Did you not feel that with Kylie? No. Because you recognized it when you felt it with Kaysen.

SPEAKER_00: 45:49

Oh, I don't remember feeling anything like what I felt with Kaysen. Because once the epidural took, I didn't like there was I mean, it'd be like, I feel this happening. Got it, got it. But with weak, then I felt that with Kylie after the epidural took. That's what I felt. Because it was I didn't feel anything.

SPEAKER_01: 48:20

You just felt the pressure.

SPEAKER_00: 48:21

I just felt like there's something, but I didn't, it wasn't pain at that point.

SPEAKER_01: 48:26

And then what was it like with Kaysen?

SPEAKER_00: 48:28

With Kaysen, there was I wouldn't say there was pain, there was a lot of pressure. And I I mean I felt that in the car ride over. And I was like, oh, like this is different than what happened with Kylie, because I never felt that with Kylie.

SPEAKER_01: 48:40

But d do you remember what you did feel like where in your body you felt it? The pressure?

SPEAKER_00: 48:47

Oh, with Kylie? I mean, I guess like the I don't know if I can find I mean, I guess it was like it would have been my lower back, maybe there was a lot of pain. I just remember there was so much pain. Yeah. But before they had given me the Pitocin, it was my lower back that was hurting a lot. Other than that, it was just like and then it was out of control with potato. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 49:15

So lower back pain usually indicates that the baby is what we call OP, which is basically stunning side up. Do you remember how she came out? She was head first. Right, but like was her face up towards the ceiling or down, or did they tell you?

SPEAKER_00: 49:29

They I don't know if they even told me. Yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01: 49:32

That is a really awkward way for your baby to come out because you want your baby to be facing the floor. If you're if you're which I don't recommend, don't lay on your back to try to have a baby, don't stay on your back. However, if you're on your back and your baby is facing down, and usually your baby is either one side or the other, but like facing down, not straight through. You don't want a baby going straight through your pelvis because there's not enough room. Your pelvis is like this, right? So you want your baby to kind of go that way or that way. The most common position is like your left side interior, like up, but facing down. That way usually helps your baby get through the pelvis a little bit better. It sounds like Kylie was just face up, and so that would explain why you had to do so much maneuvering and it was so uncomfortable because she probably wasn't really in your pelvis until you were able to like sit up and get comfortable. Right. And then your you got you had your epidural, and then did they move you at all after your epidural? I don't recall. Okay. So I would imagine that that's what the pain came from versus with Casein, he was probably in position, your water broke, and he started to just kind of hey buddy moving through your pelvis. Good job, by the way. Congratulations.

SPEAKER_00: 50:56

I figured that bumping. Oh, can you tell me real fast? Um, so Genu, um, he's still alive in the next scene, but he's a ghost. Oh my goodness, that's crazy. Have your kids watched K-pop Gemon Hunters yet? Yes. How many hundreds of times? Yeah. So he was talking about Ginu.

SPEAKER_02: 51:17

Oh he's a ghost now.

SPEAKER_00: 51:20

Yeah, okay. So love that.

SPEAKER_01: 51:24

It has a it has a very good message. I I've seen bits and pieces of it, and I'm like, I don't understand. So maybe I should sit and watch it.

SPEAKER_00: 51:32

Yeah, the first time I was like, I don't know about this. Because I was at the scene when like the boy band first shows up, and I'm like, uh feels very negative. But it's a key, it's a cute baby. Yeah.

unknown: 51:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 51:45

So back to Case and I think the difference is probably just the position that your babies are in.

SPEAKER_00: 51:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 51:51

And also first time mom versus second time mom. So your body not knowing what to do with your first, and probably because of the back labor you're experiencing, she was probably facing up, not the optimal position. Because when babies are facing up, the pressure is on the back side of your pelvis, which is why you feel like it's the back of her head, the hardest part of her head, on the back of your pelvis, the hardest part of the pelvis, where really she needs to be turned the other way so that she can get down because the back part of your pelvis is up here, and then the front part of your pelvis is down here. So then there's like a little bit more space for them to maneuver down and it's less pressure. And then like they're in the optimal position to come out of your pelvis. So I think all of the work you did was to try to move her into a different position or move her through your pelvis while still in that position. Either way, that's incredibly hard. And then Casein came down the way your body was made for him to come down, right?

SPEAKER_00: 52:48

Mom, I'm gonna be at your second child. I'm just gonna make this so easy. Right.

SPEAKER_01: 52:53

Yeah. So, and then did you get to hold him right away?

SPEAKER_00: 52:56

Uh I think so.

SPEAKER_01: 52:57

I don't remember. I don't remember. I don't know. It was all just a big blur.

SPEAKER_00: 53:02

I do. Braden's like, no, you were awake the whole time. I'm like, I don't think I was. I don't remember because you're focusing, you were just like in the zone. Maybe I don't. I remember sitting there and I remember nurses going by and being like, Oh, we gotta get this one.

SPEAKER_01: 53:16

And that's labor land. That's what we want. That's what we try to get. Like, your brain is checked out. It's you and your intuition and all your primal instincts. The rest of your logical brain is checked out. Whereas with Kylie, it sounds like your logical brain was there the whole time trying to go, what the hell is happening? Probably. Yeah, that's hard. There's this, I don't remember what the actual code is, and I'm probably gonna misquote this, but there's this story that women go into outer space to like bring their baby back down. And I feel like that's what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to completely leave your body and go bring this soul into the world in order to make that happen. And it sounds like it was really hard for you to do with Kylie because your body wasn't doing what you expected it to do, and you felt like you had to control it and with Haston. Your body was doing what you expected it to do, and you just naturally checked out. And I feel like you were doing what you're supposed to do.

SPEAKER_00: 54:14

Yeah, that makes sense. It's I mean, it it definitely makes me feel better because I'm like, I don't remember that. I don't remember, I don't remember. It's like, why don't I remember these moments? Your brain was offline. My my brain didn't need me to think right at that point, it just needed me to do.

SPEAKER_01: 54:34

Right. And that's why we try not to interrupt women in labor because to check back into that thinking part of your brain brings you right back to like the painting and what's happening and imagining like what's going on in your body, and that's scary. Right. So I feel like you did all of the things that you needed to do in both labors. And once you finally were able to go into outer space and get your baby for both, and go visit the stork, right? Yeah, because with the epidural, you're able to get your nap and like check out, right? And with Casein, the epidural was the part that made you come back to life.

SPEAKER_00: 55:17

They're both amazing though.

SPEAKER_01: 55:19

Well, you are a rock star for both.

SPEAKER_00: 55:21

Thanks for amazing. Thanks, Kelly. I do think that I mean, for anybody that watches this, obviously, well, not obviously, they don't know me, but you know me. I do. And you know, we do a lot of thought process thinking and helping us overcome emotions and things like that. And so this is something Kelly and I work on all the time with each other, but I do think as a mom, even for somebody that does do that work on ourselves, having somebody else validate your feelings and no matter what happens, you did a good job. And I think it's really important that moms hear that. And I don't feel like we hear that enough as moms because we take such a burden on like everything's are it's my job to care for the children, it's my job to have the house clean, it's my job to do this, but the validation that whatever you're doing is great, and what you're doing in that moment is what needs to be done.

SPEAKER_01: 56:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 56:27

Even if it's not up to the expectations that we think they should have, because we do hold us up on higher expectations.

SPEAKER_01: 56:35

Well, and I think that also when we compare ourselves to others and we don't know what the standard we're comparing it to is.

SPEAKER_02: 56:43

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 56:44

I feel like in this instance, trying to compare Kylie's birth to Kaisen's birth is setting an unreasonable standard. Right. And so, yeah, of course you're gonna feel awful about that first birth, that that's the standard you're comparing to. But that wasn't something you could control. And and you actually did control it by instinctually moving in ways that alleviated the pressure, and ultimately that led to your nurse noticing that your epidural wasn't working. And honestly, moms with babies that are sunny side up, the way it sounds like Kylie was, need a lot of extra help, whether it's positioning or sometimes you just need to get that epidural so you can relax. And I think you did the best you possibly could without knowing what was going on. Yeah. So we have a few minutes left. How was postpartum for both? You were talking about breastfeeding, and that's a whole other animal.

SPEAKER_00: 57:42

Oh my gosh, yeah, that is a whole nother animal. Well, I'll start with case in. I do think already gone through the process for things, second baby just easier in my situation. COVID lockdown hit, you know, I think it was like the 14th of March. So Brandon was forced to stay home because that was something I had a lot of fear for. Like, how am I gonna take care of a three-year-old and a newborn baby at the same time? But then lockdown happened, and so Brandon was home with me for, you know, six months straight, pretty much. So that made life very easy. So with Kasen, I think the thing that was harder with Kaysen was the body image stuff because I gained a lot of weight with him. So that was definitely a harder thing to overcome. With Kylie, I'd lost a lot of the weight. With Kaysen, I wasn't working at the restaurant anymore, so I wasn't walking like I had been. So there were just a lot of things that compiled. So with Kaysen, it was probably more the body image stuff. Kylie, the most stressful was the breastfeeding. I had in my mind that this is the way God wants it, and it's very easy and natural, and it should just happen. And it didn't with Kylie. So the fact that I wanted it so bad, we spent a lot of money on cookies and nutrition for me to take, and we read a lot to see what could help. And we went to the lactation consultant at the hospital like three times a week to see if she could help. And I was pumping at the same time, so that way I could try to get my flow up. But I think the most I ever pumped in a session was maybe like one ounce, like ever in the three months I would tried. And it hit really hard initially because in the hospital she latched, and the nurse was like, Oh, she latched. Great, you're doing a great job. And you know, she was gaining weight, and then they lose the weight initially. So we when we went to her first doctor's appointment, whatever it was, the five days later, they were like, She's underweight, she's jaundice, so they had to go draw blood from her. And at that point, we decided I would not be taking the children to the doctor's office when they needed shots because that was a traumatic situation for me. Five days postpartum had to go to the hospital. They were poking her foot to try to get the blood, and she was crying so much. I was crying. Brandon's like, I don't know what to do. So that was really hard because I was like, why are they hurting my baby? And why is she underweight? Why isn't my body doing what it's supposed to do? So then we had to start supplementing with formula and looking back from everything that I've learned from you, and then from one of our other ladies in Bumping Beyond Alex. I mean, the more stressed you are about something, the less you're going to produce with it. And so there were things that I probably could have done differently that I didn't really know about. But the that time too with Kylie, there was this shift that breast is best. But then you also had the public shaming of if you were breastfeeding in public. So it was a very weird time slot, like to have a kid and then wanting to breastfeed. And then you have outside sources, the older generation saying, Oh, you should just feed with a bottle and don't try. And that bothered me a lot. The thing that probably got me the most was my mom came up for it was a week or two weeks, right when Kylie was born to help. And it was after the doctor's appointment. And mom was like, Oh, I was never able to breastfeed you kids. And it was like, mom just dropped a bomb on me that okay, maybe this isn't me, but this is genetics. And why the F wouldn't you have said something sooner? Because I've been freaking out for you know the last week that I'm not nourishing my child how I'm supposed to and all these things. And then maybe it's just my body, like maybe it's just not meant to happen for my body. Because before I didn't see that as an option, like, no, God intended moms to produce food for their baby, and so I was gonna do everything in my gosh done power to figure out how to make that work. And so at that point, I did feel I actually started a group on Facebook of like my friends that I had known that had had kids, and very similar to what Bump and Beyond is now, where it's like if you have questions, if you're seeking help for something, don't feel like you're lost in the wind. Somebody has been through it before you, and you can find help if you ask. But yeah, breastfeeding was very, very, very hard. Yeah, I tried for three months, and it's with casen, I still was not able to produce a lot, but I gave him what I could. But I went at it at a very different mindset of I'm gonna do my best with what I can do, and that is perfect, right?

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:02

And that's the mindset we all need.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:05

I mean, if anything, I could give some a mom mindset going into the first time. It's you're gonna do the best that you can, and that is perfect.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:13

Yes. And so with Casein, I was like, okay, I'm good, we're done. And I think for him, it was like a month that I tried. But with Kylie, she was either strapped my boob trying to feed her, or I had the pumps in. And we spent, I mean, you know, doing the research on the breast pumps, like I got the spectra or whatever it was from the insurance company. But then okay, maybe we get new flanges that fit my boobs better. And maybe, oh, maybe if we get the hoka, that's just like it just squeezes it out based off assumption. Or so I mean, we spent, I was like, oh, they have this new one that like I don't know, like we spent so much money in time. I spent so much time on that to try to get it because I thought it was what was supposed to happen. And like I said, in the hospital, they were very adamant about you should keep trying to breastfeed, you should keep trying to do this. But then it got to the point, especially with me having to go back to work, I was like, it's not, it's not working. This is, I'm not gonna be in the restaurant and pump for every two hours. I have to leave my tables to go pump for 20 minutes each side.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:25

And so when I went back to work, I think I did it for like a week and I was like, I'm out. This is I'm yeah. And were you in the bathroom doing that? No, they let me go to the office. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, I was really good friends with management. They did have a camera in the office, but there was like one, no, no, no, no. There was one corner that nothing saw. It was right by the door, so they put like a screen over the window. And then, you know, there'd only be two people with keys at any time in the restaurant, and I was one of them because I would manage for them sometimes. So they're like, whenever you need to go, just go. So they were very supportive of what I wanted to do. But like I said, after it was after like a few shifts, and I was like, Yeah, um sucks. So done. But I wanted I wanted that connection with Kylie, and I wanted to give her what she needed. And I do believe that I mean, obviously with the studies, it shows it's true, but breast milk is amazing for the kids, and I wanted to give that to her. Um, and my body was just like, no, you can have a little bit, but not a lot.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:30

Yeah, I had the same feeling. And the the truth is, I don't want to gloss over the dark history of breastfeeding and wet nurses and all that, but in the past, that's why we've had alternatives, right? So in my head, I thought, and this is what I told myself if it were 200 years ago and I weren't able to. Breastfeed my baby, she would die. That was what was playing in my head when I was determined to breastfeed. The truth is, there are other humans out there or animals that can breastfeed your baby. And I'm not advocating for going out and finding another human to do it. If that's what you want to do, that's that's fine. We have a lot of options now, like we have donor banks where the milk has been pasteurized, tested, all of that stuff. Cow's milk isn't equivalent to breast milk. So if you're thinking about replacing breast milk with cow's milk, don't do it until your baby's a year old. But 200 years ago, there were other options. I know my mom told me that her mom used, I think, barley to make some sort of formula for her because she couldn't breastfeed, or it was frowned upon back then. I don't even know because there's been so many different trends in feeding babies. Right. So, and also back when your mom was feeding you, the trend was definitely not breastfeeding. That was when formula was the thing, right? And so there was no support. And there's so much expectation on moms and the rules change all the time. Yeah. So if you are trying to fit into the societal mold that you're seeing today, I want to absolve you of that because it's a trend. That's all it is right now. We get the information that we get from the sources we get, and then we interpret that information and we share it, and then moms are told that they should follow that. And truthfully, moms need to do what they need to do. They need to figure out what's best for them and their family and figure out what works for them and then move on and not worry about what society is saying and sure, go to the pediatrician, make sure your baby's healthy. Right. And listen to the pediatrician. But also, if you're talking to your pediatrician and something just doesn't feel right for you, ask for alternatives. They can help you. And it doesn't need to mean anything. You don't need to create an entire story around like I did, you know, like my baby would have died 200 years ago. Don't do that to yourself because it's probably not true. You probably don't have enough information. Do what's best for you right now, given the circumstances you have right now, and let that be the best that you can do. Because your job is to be the best mother, human being for your baby. And it doesn't just mean you give them the perfect food. It doesn't just mean that you have the perfect delivery. You do the best you can in the moment and you move on. And you know that the decision that you made, the the resources that you had at that moment, the emotional energy that you had in that moment, the physical energy you had in that moment, that you did the best thing that you could in that moment for you and your baby. And then you move on. Well said. Normally at this point, I ask if you could go back in time and talk to yourself at any point in this process, where would you go and what would you say? I feel like you've kind of already answered this, but I'm gonna go ahead and give you the opportunity.

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:42

So, in all seriousness, I would go back and say, call Kelly.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:47

I don't know if I could have helped you nine years ago because I was still in the turmoil of my first birth.

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:52

Right. It would, and I think a a lot of the situation that came through has just been being around the people I'm with and the company I'm with, and just that what happened happened and it's okay. And I did a great job. Yeah. Doing it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:07

I I think the message though is find your village.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:11

Right. Because that's the only way we've come through this. Like I've done so much healing from finding my village in ways I had no idea I needed to heal. And I think that I mean, like, that's kind of our life's work right now. So find your village. And if you don't have a village, come join Bumped and Beyond because we're here for you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:31

And taking that a step further, it's showing our children how we can overcome hard situations too. And I truly believe the situations that we go through are meant to help us educate others, whether it be our children or our friends or someone we've never met before, uh, understand that they're not alone and what they're doing.

unknown: 1:09:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:53

And as a mom, I think we question ourselves a lot, but you always know what's going to be best for you and for your babies.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:00

Yeah. Tap into that instinct and listen to it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:03

Yeah. Or call Kelly. Or call me.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:08

Well, Erin, I'm so glad we finally got a chance to do this. And as always, it's been a pleasure talking to you. It's been a pleasure. I missed your face. I missed yours too. It's been a busy summer, but I'm so glad. I'm looking forward to doing this.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:21

And then I say that in school is even busier.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:23

And then you're sad, and then we're babies.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:25

I know. Yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:28

Love you. Thank you so much for doing this.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:29

Thank you, Kelly.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:30

Love you too.